DSM Satyarthi
Eishān Param Brahm Paramātmā/Ved orders:
‘Vr’shā yūthév vansagah
kr’shŧīriyartyojasā. Eīshāno apratishkutah.’
—Ved: 1 R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 7| Mantr 8
Hassan says:
Qur’an doesn’t support polygomy like we see in Vedas and life of many Hindu deities.
Islam strictly says that ‘marry one if you can not do justice’ between your wives and at the end it says you can never show equal justice to your wives.
Islam allowed polygomy only with conditions.
It is a solution to the current world problems.’
Isn’t it Ridiculous?
The persons who are creating eventhe danger of the end of humankind itself, by exercising continuous TERRORISM EVERWHERE, are suggesting solution to the problems too.
Anyway, he rejects the claim that terrorists are Muslims.
So, his views must be taken seriously.
‘Men die more than women in the world….by wars..alcohol…smoking..and male infants die more than female infants..all these things result in women outnumber men in the world.
There are two options left for unmarried women if the scenario is saturated for finding a man.
Either marry a man who already has a wife or become a public object for sex as sex is an essential biological need for every human being after maturity.
So only Islam has a practical solution for this.
But western people insult Muslims for this but a survey says a western man have sexual relation with 8 women before he or she finally settled down with one but after marriage also they keep several mistresses secretly….
Islam doesn’t encourage such practices but ask Muslims to marry by their choice and if it is not enough, marry more..but there should be a proper reason for that.
But unfortunately many people misuse it.
He is seeing the problem only with sex angle.
And if ONLY sex is important in human life, his stand is quite correct.
It is also correct that:
‘If you fear that you might not treat the orphans justly, then marry the women that seem good to you: two, or three, or four.*4 If you fear that you will not be able to treat them justly, then marry (only) one,*5 or marry from among those whom your right hands possess.*6 This will make it more likely that you will avoid injustice.’
—Al Qur’n Al Kareem: 4 Sooratunnisa: 3
Maulana Saiyad Abul Aala Maududi, rahamatullah alaihi, writes:
‘*4. Commentators have explained this in the following ways:
(i) There is the view of ‘A’ishah who says that men tended to marry orphan girls who were under their guardianship out of consideration for either their property, beauty or because they thought they would be able to treat them according to their whims, as they had no one to protect them. After marriage such men sometimes committed excesses against these girls. It is in this context that the Muslims are told that if they fear they will not be able to do justice to the orphan girls, then they should marry other girls whom they like.(This interpretation seems to be supported by verse 127 of this surah.)
(ii) The second view is that of Ibn ‘Abbas and his disciple ‘Ikrimah who expressed the opinion that in the Jahiliyah period there was no limit on the number of wives a man could take. The result was that a man sometimes married as many as ten women and, when expenses increased because of a large family, he encroached on the rights either of his orphan nephews or other relatives. It was in this context that God fixed the limit of four wives and instructed the Muslims that they may marry up to four wives providing they possessed the capacity to treat them equitably.
(iii) Sa’id b. Jubayr, Qatadah and some other commentators say that while the Arabs of the Jahiliyah period did not approve of subjecting orphans to wrong, they had no concept of justice and equity with regard to women. They married as many women as they wanted and then subjected them to injustice and oppression. It is in this context that people are told that if they fear perpetrating wrongs on orphans they ought to be equally worried about perpetrating them on women. In the first place they should never marry more than four, and of those four, they should marry only as many as they can treat fairly.
Each of the three interpretations is plausible and all three may possibly be correct. Moreover, the verse could also mean that if a person does not find himself able to treat orphans in a fair manner, then he might as well marry the women who are looking after those orphans.
*5. Muslim jurists are agreed that according to this verse the maximum number Of wives has been fixed at four. This conclusion is also supported by traditions. It is reported that when Ghaylan, the chief of Ta’if, embraced Islam he had nine wives. The Prophet (peace be on him) ordered him to keep only four wives and divorce the rest. Another person, Nawfal b. Mu’awiyah, had five wives. The Prophet (peace be on him) ordered him to divorce one of them.(For the relevant traditions see the comments of Ibn Kathir and Qurtubi on this verse – Ed.)
This verse stipulates that marrying more wives than one is permissible on the condition that one treats his wives equitably. A person who avails himself of this permission granted by God to have a plurality of wives, and disregards the condition laid down by God to treat them equitably has not acted in good faith with God. In case there are complaints from wives that they are not being treated equitably, the Islamic state has the right to intervene and redress such grievances.
Some people who have been overwhelmed and overawed by the Christianized outlook of Westerners have tried to prove that the real aim of the Qur’an was to put an end to polygamy (which, in their opinion, is intrinsically evil). Since it was widely practised at that time, however, Islam confined itself to placing restrictions on it. Such arguments only show the mental slavery to which these people have succumbed. That polygamy is an evil per se is an unacceptable proposition, for under certain conditions it becomes a moral and social necessity. If polygamy is totally prohibited men who cannot remain satisfied with only one wife will look outside the bounds of matrimonial life and create sexual anarchy and corruption. This is likely to cause much greater harm than polygamy to the moral and social order. For this reason the Qur’an has allowed those who feel the need for it to resort to polygamy. Those who consider it an evil in itself may certainly denounce it in disregard of the Qur’an and may even argue for its abolition. But they have no right to attribute such a view to the Qur’an, for it has expressed its permission of polygamy in quite categorical terms. Indeed, there is not the slightest hint in the Qur’an that could justify the conclusion that it advocates abolition of polygamy.(For further elaboration see my book, Sunnat k A’iniHaythiyat, Lahore, 3rd edition, 1975, pp. 307-16.)
*6. This expression denotes ‘slave-girls’, i.e. female captives of war who are distributed by the state among individuals. The purpose of this verse is to tell men that if their financial circumstances do not permit them to support a free woman as their wife then they may marry a slave-girl (see verse 25 below); if they consider it necessary to have more than one wife and it would be difficult for them to treat their free wives equitably they may resort to slave-girls, for here the burden of obligations is lighter by comparison.(For further injunctions regarding slave-girls seen. 44 below.)’
–Towards understanding the Qur’an:
4Sooratunnisa: 3
Ved presents far more wider view.
It says that men and women are not created for sex.
They are created for
‘Kr’nvanto vishvmaaryam”Make all better’
—Ved: 1 R’g Ved: 9/63/5
‘Dharmsantaanam‘ ‘To spread Dharm properly.’
-Lord Ram:Aarsh Ramayan: 4 Kishkindhakand: Sarg 18/9
‘Dharmsansthaapnaarthaay’
‘To establish Dharm’
-Lord Kr’shn: Shrimad Bhagvad Geeta: 4/8
Finding no proper answer to it, Hassan Dubai UAE tried desperately to change the subject of discussion:
‘The biggest terrorists in the world at present are Hindus…when you make an appraisal about Gujarat and Orisaa riots in which Hindu zealots burnt human beings and raped even small children.
The base for their justification for the crimes agianst minorities in India is from Geetha itself in which Baghwan Krishna persuade Arjuna to fight his cousins to have heaven if he died of kingdom if he won the battle.So Hindu extreimists/terrorists instigate these poor Hindus that theyw ill get heaven or kingdom if they fight agianst evil which in their term are Christians and Muslims.
Now hold on your holes and save Hinduism from the Hindutva criminals…’
I did not allow the hate monger to deviate from the original subject:
It is required to build a society, NOT ON SEX, but on DHARM.
It is the basic difference of two systems of
life, Hinduism and Islam.
This basic difference can be observed in the practical life of Hindus and Muslims, in every aspect of life.
One of my close friends, Sidrah, is by birth a Muslimah.
Yet she has married a Hindu.
When asked why, she answered:
‘In what way have I disgraced Islam? And in what way have you honored Islam? You, yourself, admit you are a “weak Muslim,” yet you want to place yourself on the judge’s seat and play the role of judge and executioner. I suggest you try putting your own house in order first, before pointing fingers at others.
Tell me, in what way are you better than somebody like, let’s say, Durgesh Jabalpur’s wife? The way I see it, if we take into account what he has said, she’s a much better practicing Muslim than you are. The only “flaw” in her, it would seem, is that she has married a Hindu man. So, you mean to say that because of that, she is not a Muslim, and just because you have not gone through an interfaith marriage, even though you’re not steadfast in your religious practices, even though you’re a weak Muslim in your own words, you’re better off than her in every possible way? It’s ridiculous to think of it.
It’s certainly wrong to call a person that is steadfast in prayer a kaafir, and I fail to understand how you can be certain that her namaz and ibaadat are not being accepted, while yours is. What makes you think you’re better off in Allah SWT’s eyes than her? But of course, you haven’t married a kaafir, and that does make you superior to others like her, doesn’t it? That too, even if you’re far behind her in regular prayer.
If you’re really so bothered about instances like this, perhaps you should start asking yourself the question as to why it’s happening, find out the cause of it, and try to eradicate that cause. I’m sure, if you searched earnestly, you’d realize why Muslim women have started opting for non-Muslim partners. Somewhere, there’s something lacking for sure, but typical of Muslim male chauvinism, rather than accept your own shortcomings, you’re obviously going to pin the blame on the girl.
All I ask for is a change in the attitudes and mindset of the Muslim males. Today, to cite just one example, a Muslim girl can rarely pass through a Muslim locality without having to undergo countless lewd gazes, at times teasing, or similar uncalled-for actions from young Muslim males. Incidentally, these men are supposed to be protectors of the girl’s honor, in accordance with Islamic texts, but more than often, these very men are at the forefront in doing and thinking otherwise. I’ve lived in Muslim localities much of my life, and I have to admit that I really feel ashamed and insecure to be walking down the streets, when I should have had a sense of total security instead in the first place. You don’t find this in other localities. Chasing girls seems to be the top priority of Muslim males nowadays. Wouldn’t it be better off if, instead, they were to change their attitudes, open up, have a decent education, put it to good use, and try to live decent, progressive lives, rather than hang around in the streets in groups doing nothing worthy?
Finally, I don’t need you to read me what I have the right to do and what I haven’t. I’m proud to be Muslim, and I always will be proud to be Muslim. It’s a feeling that comes from deep inside and, by the Grace of Allah SWT, nothing’s ever going to change that feeling.‘
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/pakistan/T8I…
I said further,
We are not talking about terrorism now, we are talking about POLYGAMY.
Please, don’t try to change the subject matter of discussion.
Moreover, we are not talking of PRACTICES.
We are talking of PRINCIPLES.
Practices are not religion.
They change person to person and from time to time too.
Principles are religion.
Ved and Qur’an, both, do not change EVER.
‘Adabdhaani varunasy’ vrataani’
‘The laws of the Chosen One are inviolable.’
-Ved: 1 R’g Ved: 1/24/10
‘Devasy’ pashy’ Kaavyam n’ mamaar, n’ jeeryati’
‘See the wisdom of God: neither died nor grew old.’
-Ved: 4 Atharv Ved: 10/8/32
‘Laa tabdeel likalmaatillaahi’.
‘The words of Allah shall not change.’
—Al Qur’an Al Majeed: 10 Yunus| 64.
‘Va lan tajid lisunnatillaahi tabdeelan.’
‘Never shall you find any change in the Way of Allah.’
—Al Qur’an Al Majeed: 48 Al Fataħ | 23.
Sidrah says:
‘All I ask for is a change in the attitudes and mindset of the Muslim males. Today, to cite just one example, a Muslim girl can rarely pass through a Muslim locality without having to undergo countless lewd gazes, at times teasing, or similar uncalled-for actions from young Muslim males. Incidentally, these men are supposed to be protectors of the girl’s honor, in accordance with Islamic texts, but more than often, these very men are at the forefront in doing and thinking otherwise. I’ve lived in Muslim localities much of my life, and I have to admit that I really feel ashamed and insecure to be walking down the streets, when I should have had a sense of total security instead in the first place. You don’t find this in other localities. Chasing girls seems to be the top priority of Muslim males nowadays. Wouldn’t it be better off if, instead, they were to change their attitudes, open up, have a decent education, put it to good use, and try to live decent, progressive lives, rather than hang around in the streets in groups doing nothing worthy?’
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/pakistan/T8I…
These are the facts, relevant to our discussion, and PROVE my stand clearly.
Hinduism has built its society on DHARM, and not on sex.
Hindus are sophisticated therefore in comparison with Muslims, and gradually becoming the first choice of entire womankind, Muslimahs included.
Islam, as Hassan himself admits, has built its society on sex, as its central point.
The consequence is what already described above, properly highlighted:
‘All I ask for is a change in the attitudes and mindset of the Muslim males. Today, to cite just one example, a Muslim girl can rarely pass through a Muslim locality without having to undergo countless lewd gazes, at times teasing, or similar uncalled-for actions from young Muslim males. Incidentally, these men are supposed to be protectors of the girl’s honor, in accordance with Islamic texts, but more than often, these very men are at the forefront in doing and thinking otherwise. I’ve lived in Muslim localities much of my life, and I have to admit that I really feel ashamed and insecure to be walking down the streets, when I should have had a sense of total security instead in the first place. You don’t find this in other localities. Chasing girls seems to be the top priority of Muslim males nowadays. Wouldn’t it be better off if, instead, they were to change their attitudes, open up, have a decent education, put it to good use, and try to live decent, progressive lives, rather than hang around in the streets in groups doing nothing worthy?’
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/pakistan/T8I…
‘Hassan, how many wives did Mohammed have?’
He can’t answer.
But, you are right.
Keep asking.
He is a better person in their lot.
But his stand is not correct.
He has disturbed me quite.
I think, I have to complete the rest of the matter, in my next sitting.
Enjoy friend.
Hassan says:
‘Men die more than women in the world….by wars..alcohol…smoking..and male infants die more than female infants..all these things result in women outnumber men in the world.’
Quite right.
Wars, alcohol,smoking, male infants die more than female infants; all these four reasons are already almost cured in Hindu way/system of life.
We can’t negate even the farthest possibility of all these four reasons, of course; but in general, all of these are quite taken care of in
Hindu way/system of life.
That’s why it is the oldest way/system of life, the humankind has.
Wars are not honored ever in Hindu way/system of life.
So, once married to a Hindu, no woman has to suffer from fear of widohood due to this reason.
Islam can’t say it.
It’s history is full of wars and wars only.
It is not that Hinduism does not preach it.
Ved itself orders:
‘Ete asr’gramaashavo’ti hvaraansi babhravah,
soma r’tasy’ dhaarayaa.
indram vardhanto apturah KR’NVANTO VISHVAMAARYAM,
apaghnanto araavnah’
‘These Swift flowing tawny colored Som, with a stream of eternal truth, let loose/proceed, augmenting Indr, urging the utmost beautiful young girls and ladies, MAKING ALL BETTER, destroying the withholders.’
―Ved 1R| 9 | 63 | 4-5.
Ved also orders, if there come withholders in the process of ‘KR’NVANTO VISHVAMAARYAM”MAKING ALL BETTER’, in the way, destroy them:
‘apaghnanto araavnah’
‘destroying the withholders’,
but Hindus were never so war obsessed, as Muslims are found in the entire history of humankind.
Hinduism right ab initio, hates wars.
Even the very fourth Mantr of Ved clarifies in the subject:
‘Agne! yam yagyamadhvaram vishvatah paribhoorasi,
s’ iddeveshu gachchhati.’
‘O one who leads to light! thou art from all sides protector of the violence-less best work, ONLY THAT goes in divine ones.’
-Ved: 1 R’g Ved: 1/1/4
‘VIOLENCE LESS BEST WORK’ YAGYAMDHVARAM’ means: a work is NOT BEST if there’s violence in it.
‘Yagyo vai shreshthtamam karm.’
‘Yagy’ is the BEST WORK.’
-Shatpath Brahman: 1/7/1/5
‘Yagyo hi shreshthtamam karm.’
‘ONLY BEST WORK is yagy’.
-Taittireey’ Brahmanam: 3/2/1/4
First of all, all of the worlds religions except Christianity permit or allow multiple wives.
Many people are illiterate and thus do not read their scriptures properly. In the case of men of the bible, did keep extra wives but against the law of leviticus. Keep in mind that Leviticus provides solutions to problems with men with mutiple wives. Notice it always says ” IF” a man choose another women or “If” a man has sex with more than one wife. The word “IF” implies it is the choice of man to go against God’s wishes.
Allah of course allows a man to have more than one wife but warns that he will never be successful in keeping them all equal. Thus what a contradiction that is to the law!!!’
I said:
‘I think, the best person to answer it, is Hassan.
Thanks for response.’
Hassan answered Ajit:
‘11.’ Eleven.
Then he went on to show how uncultured he is:
‘You are ofcourse a long long *8hole..i dont have to hide anything about him when you can get any informations of his life on tip of your fingers….what kind of idiot you could be to say ‘keep asking’ as you dont know about what i have to say?’
I replied naturally:
The idiot is frustrated and angry consequently.
Lacking manners heavily due to his faulty upbringing.
I’ve already said: You’ve your own prejudices you think true.
The main difference between you and me is, you lack manners heavily, I don’t at all.
However, you are not responsible for it.
It’s our CULTURAL UPBRINGING.
You are taught not to read anything except Islam.
I’m taught:
‘Vidyaam chaavidyaanch yastadvedobhayagvong sah,
Avidyayaa mr’tyum teertvaa vidyayaamr’tamashnute.’
‘Science and nescience, who knows the both simultaneously; by nescience crossing the death, by science, he obtains the eternity.’
–Ved2 Yajurved|40|14
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/pakistan/TT5 …
Then why don’t you answer him, idiot?
What’s there to be ashamed of?
Even Lord Ram and his brothers were polygamists according to Aarsh Ramayan’:
”Hr’shtaah khalu bhavishyanti
Ramasy’ paramaah striyah,
aprahr’shtaah bhavishyanti
snushaaste Bharatxaye’.’
’12. raamasy’= Ram’s; paramaastriyaH= great wives; bhavanti khalu= will become; hR’ishTaaH= delighted; te= your; snushhaaH= daughters-in-law; bhavishhyanti= will become; aprahR’isTaaH= unhappy; bharatkshhaye= of Bharat’s weak position.
“Ram’s best wives will get delighted. Your daughters-in-law will be unhappy because of Bharat’s waning position.”
Ayodhya Kandam: Sarg 8| Verse 12:
http://www.valmikiramayan.net/ayodhya/sarga8/…
Polygamy: a discarded system of life
Fa’in kħiftum allā tådilū fa wāħidatan
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More thought provoking articles from DSM Satyarthi:
1. Why can’t we love each other?: Innallāh yuħibbul muttaqīn
2. Should we advocate abolishing religion from planet earth?
3. Does religion provide false security?
4. Polygamy: a discarded system of life
——————————————————————————————–
1. On Hinduism
2. On Islam
3. On History
4. Commentary on Ved
5. Science Fiction
6. More Creative Adult Sex in English from Durgesh
7.Durgesh in Hindi/Urdu
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More on Hinduism from DSM Satyarthi:
11. N’ karm lipyaté naré
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More on Islam from DSM Satyarthi:
1. Bal huv qur’anum majeedun fe LAUHIM MAHFOOZIN
16. Llā yamassuhu illā almutahharūn
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More Commentary on Ved from DSM Satyarthi:
1. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 1| Mantr 1
2. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 1| Mantr 2
3. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 5| Mantr 3
4. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 5| Mantr 3
5. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 7| Mantr 5
6. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 7| Mantr 8
4. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 19| Mantr 1
5. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 19| Mantr 2
6. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 19| Mantr 3
7. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 19| Mantr 4
8. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 19| Mantr 5
9. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 19| Mantr 6
10. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 19| Mantr 7
11. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 19| Mantr 8
12.R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 19| Mantr 9
13. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 58| Mantr 6
14. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 164| Mantr 20
15. R’gved: Mandal 1| Sookt 164| Mantr 46
16. R’gved: Mandal 2| Sookt 1| Mantr 1
17 R’gved: Mandal 3| Sookt 1| Mantr 1
18. R’gved: Mandal 3| Sookt 6| Mantr 2
19. R’gved: Mandal 4| Sookt 1| Mantr 1
20. R’gved: Mandal 4| Sookt 26| Mantr 2
21. R’gved: Mandal 5| Sookt 1| Mantr 1
22. R’gved: Mandal 6| Sookt 1| Mantr 1
23. R’gved: Mandal 7| Sookt 1| Mantr 1
24. R’gved: Mandal 8| Sookt 1| Mantr 1
25. R’gved: Mandal 9| Sookt 1| Mantr 1
26. R’gved: Mandal 9| Sookt 63| Mantr 4-5
27. R’gved: Mandal 10| Sookt 1| Mantr 1
28. R’gved: Mandal 10| Sookt 85| Mantr 42
29. Yajurved: Adhyaay’ 1| Mantr 1
30. Yajurved: Adhyaay’ 1| Mantr 2
31. Yajurved: Adhyaay’ 1| Mantr 3
32. Yajurved: Adhyaay’ 1| Mantr 4
33. Yajurved: Adhyaay’ 11| Mantr 1
34. Yajurved: Adhyaay’ 13| Mantr 4
35. Yajurved: Adhyaay’ 23| Mantr 3
36. Yajurved: Adhyaay’ 31| Mantr 18
37. Yajurved: Adhyaay’ 40| Mantr2
38. Yajurved: Adhyaay’ 40| Mantr8
39. Saamved: Mantr 1
40. Sāmved: Mantr 115
41. Sāmved: Mantr 641: Mahānāmnyārchik| 1
42. Sāmved: Mantr 650: Mahānāmnyārchik| 10
43. Sāmved: Mantr 651: Uttarārchik
44. Atharv Ved: Kaand 1| Sookt 1| Mantr 1
45. Atharv Ved: Kānd 3| Sookt 30| Mantr 3
46. Atharv Ved: Kānd 3| Sookt 30| Mantr 4
47. Atharv Ved: Kānd 3| Sookt 30| Mantr 6
48. Atharv Ved: Kānd 4| Sookt 4| Mantr 6
49. Atharv Ved: Kānd 4| Sookt 4| Mantr 7
50. Atharv Ved: Kānd 4| Sookt 4| Mantr 8
51. Atharv Ved: Kaand 4| Sookt 13| Mantr 1
52. Atharv Ved: Kaand 8| Sookt 1| Mantr 6
53. Atharv Ved: Kaand 8| Sookt 4| Mantr 22
54. Atharv Ved: Kaand 14| Sookt 1| Mantr 22
55.Atharv Ved: Kaand 14| Sookt 2| Mantr 25
Hinduism according to Ved: DSM Satyarthi 